The world’s always been divided. I understand that. In Europe under the medieval system there were serfs and knights, lords and clergy, barons and kings. Essentially divisions were along economic lines which in turn created social lines. That’s why a royal marrying a commoner was pretty much unheard of.
Of course there were the natural barriers created by oceans that divided people groups. Then there was the development of nationalism and racism that divided people based on where they lived and what were their physical traits.
In the last 50 years the world has become smaller and smaller. The old dividing lines have melted away, but a new line is replacing all the old ones: worldview.
What do you believe? That’s the new dividing line. Of course nationalism, economics, social standing and race play into creating a person’s worldview, but I’m realizing a bigger aspect that forms the way we look at the world is our view of God.
People who don’t believe in God see the world one way, those who do believe in God, see the world in a very different way.
The discussion of the day at the FB atheist/theist group centered on the role of women. We are divided. Christians for the most part reflect the Biblical view of gender differences. Atheists think submission is a dirty word. One member even said that he would not EVER submit to ANYONE.
Which underscores the divide.
Christians first submit to God. Atheists, I believe, see the issue of obeying Someone who is over them in authority as the reason they reject God.
Christians submit to government. Atheists submit to government if they agree with it, if they have a say in creating it.
Christians believe in gender roles that involve love and submission. Atheists believe in “partnership,” which is destined to be unequal or contentious.
I know these are simplistic generalities, but I do think this divide—believing in God or not believing in God—is growing, at least in the US.
The fact is, our worldview dictates what we believe about various other issues, and ultimately what we do.
Lakers fans are Lakers fans. No one asks what your worldview is when you cheer for your favorite basketball team. But who smashes windows in the “celebrations” of a team’s successes? I don’t think anyone has ever taken a poll, but it seems hard for me to believe that someone who fears God would act in a destructive way. I mean, I’m not even saying, “Christian.” But someone who believes they either have to answer to God or they have to behave a certain way to please Him or they live by the command to love their neighbor, isn’t probably going to start fires, smash store windows, and loot local businesses.
Take that same idea to life in general. Who commits fraud against senior citizens, people who believe in and fear God or people who reject Him? Who hijacks cars? Steals purses? Shoplifts? Shoots people en masse?
I’m not saying there are no criminals who believe in God. As I noted earlier, this is a broad brush, painting generalities. But it makes sense to me that people who believe in a moral law, a Lawgiver, and a Judge, are much more likely to be law abiding than people who think law is whatever we make it and there is no one watching them 24/7, there is no just judge who will hold them accountable.
What’s the point?
I guess I think, there is no governmental answer that will bring us back into harmony. We can’t pass enough hate-crime laws or ban speakers or curb free speech in a way that will fix the great divide. I mean, telling one side to shut up and sit down is not fixing things in the first place. And a look at history will show that belief in Jesus has done well when the other side tries to stop the spread of His message.
The answer, I believe, is the one Jesus gave when He returned to heaven. We are to make disciples. The more disciples, the more people who learn to love God and love their neighbors as themselves.
It is a little surprising that so many look at Christianity as dangerous. And I mean, not just theism, but Christianity. I understand, for example, there is once again a crackdown in China on the unregistered house churches. And even of some of the registered ones. Specifically crosses have been eliminated in one area.
Why?
I can only think of one reason: Christians see the world differently.
![PowerElementsCharacterDevelopment[1000][1]](https://rebeccaluellamiller.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/powerelementscharacterdevelopment10001.jpg?w=205)
A Christian Worldview of Fiction 
How true. We need to stop trying to fix the unfixable and just live for the Lord.
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“I’m not saying there are no criminals who believe in God. As I noted earlier, this is a broad brush, painting generalities. But it makes sense to me that people who believe in a moral law, a Lawgiver, and a Judge, are much more likely to be law abiding than people who think law is whatever we make it and there is no one watching them 24/7, there is no just judge who will hold them accountable.”
On what evidence can you base this assumption Becky? It may make sense to you, but it is not a sensible ideal, and this sort of thinking is exactly why you cannot understand reality.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/misinformation-and-facts-about-secularism-and-religion
“Citing four different studies, Zuckerman states: “Murder rates are actually lower in more secular nations and higher in more religious nations where belief in God is widespread.” He also states: “Of the top 50 safest cities in the world, nearly all are in relatively non-religious countries.”
I think your zealousness to elevate your Christianity above atheists has actually backfired here Becky, so it may pay to do some real research.
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Hi, Steve. Interesting that you dispute this point. Of course in totalitarian countries they don’t count their own murders as murder, and the people are too afraid of the government to act contrary to their law. All this shows is that punishment is a deterrent to crime if it’s meted out swiftly and mercilessly, and that is especially clear when you look at the very religious countries in the Middle East. It’s totalitarian rule, not religion that “lowers” the rate of crime. I’m not sure you’d want a democracy to behave the same way (though there recently was a hot debate on an atheist friend’s blog about free speech and whether it was a good thing).
But the other point is, there are no “religious nations,” unless you are talking about the Arab nations that follow the Islamic law. I doubt very much that you’ll see much crime there.
I took a look at the original article and it is so full of the numbers game that “social science” plays, it’s not really saying anything concrete. For example, they give the percent of “religious” or “secular” people in a nation, then make assertions about things like the generosity of “secular” nations. Never mind that they don’t show what percent of that giving comes from those that are religious within the boarders of these “secular” nations. In other words, you can make numbers say whatever you want to.
But the fact remains: a person who does not believe in God has much less reason to obey the law or care for other people (unless they have a particular reason to believe they will benefit in the long run). It’s kind of funny because in the original article the author cites secular support for abortion as evidence that morality guides them. But in fact, abortion shows they no longer have respect for or want to protect human life.
Clearly, the article is slanted to “show” what the author already believes.
But thanks for the link, Steve. It’s interesting to see one atheist rebut what another atheist has said.
Becky
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“But the fact remains: a person who does not believe in God has much less reason to obey the law or care for other people (unless they have a particular reason to believe they will benefit in the long run).”
This claim just indicates how uneducated about atheists you are Becky. You are trapped within your indoctrinated Christian bubble with a fixed ideological view of people who you actually know nothing about.
This claim may also be insulting to some people, and I guess also to Christians who are informed. Personally, I cannot believe I am reading so much misinformed rubbish from you.
Just as an exercise I compared the USA to the UK and even though the USA scores higher in a few statistics the reading is woeful for such a highly Christianised country.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime
“It’s kind of funny because in the original article the author cites secular support for abortion as evidence that morality guides them. But in fact, abortion shows they no longer have respect for or want to protect human life.”
It is kind of funny that you read the article I linked to and come up with one issue and dismiss the rest of these facts. Some claims he makes may not be completely accurate without further scrutiny but even if only a couple of the claims are correct it is sad reading for Christian people.
“atheists are very much under-represented in the American prison population (only 0.2%). Atheists and agnostics actually have lower divorce rates than religious Americans. Of the top 50 safest cities in the world, nearly all are in relatively non-religious countries. Murder rates are actually lower in more secular nations and higher in more religious nations where belief in God is widespread. And within America, the states with the highest murder rates tend to be the highly religious, such as Louisiana and Alabama, but the states with the lowest murder rates tend to be the among the least religious in the country, such as Vermont and Oregon.
It goes on and on Becky, therefore please explain why you hold such distorted views of the world? Are they all lies? I hate to tell you, but you appear to be wanting to be intellectually blind.
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I’m sorry, Steve. I don’t understand what you’re saying when you compare the US with the UK and then report something about reading. How is this germane to the discussion?
I already commented about the article being slanted to show studies that supported their ideas and to only mention others in passing. I already explained that there are no such things as religious countries, only countries with a percent of religious people. In addition, as I already pointed out, there is no study identifying whether or not the people giving or in the example you bring up here, the criminals are religious or not religious. The same is true about various states.
And really, Steve, your studies aren’t telling you what life is like in the US the way you seem to think it is. Ask the people who live in the northwest. I have one friend who calls it the 9th circuit of hell because there is so much out of control drug use. I could go on, but the point is, the broad brush generalities I painted definitely can have exceptions. But the point is true: if you believe you can get away with a crime because no one is watching, you are much more likely to commit the crime. But for Christians who believe that God is with us and in us and that we involve Him in all our activities, we aren’t concluding “nobody will see us.” Add to this the belief in God’s judgment. So not only does He see but we will be held accountable. It is a logical deduction—not brainwashing or any of the other things you imagine, but logical, reasonable, a clearly thought out conclusion—that the person who thinks he can do what he wants without consequences is more apt to commit a crime than one who knows he will have to answer for what he does.
Becky
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“if you believe you can get away with a crime because no one is watching, you are much more likely to commit the crime. But for Christians who believe that God is with us and in us and that we involve Him in all our activities, we aren’t concluding “nobody will see us.” Add to this the belief in God’s judgment.”
You are totally wrong Becky, I do not commit crime because I do have a moral obligation to society and myself and obviously I do not want to go to jail. I do not care about a spiritual being or any judgement because they do not exist, I am not been watched regardless of any superstitious beliefs.
Christians are well represented in crime just as much as any other non-Christian groups religious groups, atheists, political or social groups, you are just trying to bend the facts so you can continue to believe you are better than the rest of us and to justify your ideals.
“So not only does He see but we will be held accountable. It is a logical deduction—not brainwashing or any of the other things you imagine, but logical, reasonable, a clearly thought out conclusion—that the person who thinks he can do what he wants without consequences is more apt to commit a crime than one who knows he will have to answer for what he does.”
I guess you must be using the same logical deduction and reasonable thought out conclusions you applied to the existence of God, Adam and Eve, creation in Genesis, the age of the Earth, Jesus etc. No evidence, no proof, no facts, no reality and no truth, get some of those right and you will have something to go to court with. You have nothing but conditional beliefs, hope and faith with dozens of crack pots pushing their ideological agenda, therefore it is brainwashing, indoctrination and mind manipulation, nothing less.
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Steve, I have repeatedly made clear that what true Christians believe is this: we are NOT better than anyone. We are not saved by our merit. We are not in a relationship with God because He loves us more. We are not above the Law or incapable of breaking it. I think I said something about that in this post!
Sad that you think a reputable scientist like Francis Collins is simply a “crack pot” who’s has been indoctrinated and is indoctrinating others. What’s especially odd is that you make these wild claims in the same paragraph in which you say there is “no evidence, no proof, no facts.” Where is your evidence that Collins is a crackpot or that he’s been indoctrinated? I believe you earlier claimed it was a subconscious thing, as if you can know his mind when even he himself can’t. And you are questioning the logical deduction and reasonable thoughts of those who believe in God. The real issue is that you don’t think there’s any evidence for God because you refuse to read anything except those who agree with your already held opinion. I think that’s called confirmation bias. When you’ve read at least the book of John or of Romans or Genesis, then you might have something to say that sounds thought out, not the out pour of your own stubborn disbelief.
Becky
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